[00:00:00] Scott: Hi, I'm Scott Fulton, the host of the Rebel Diaries podcast. This show will help you learn how to make work better for you, your colleagues and the organization you work for. I believe the modern workplace is broken for too many people with leaders and their teams, drowning in corporate complexity, information overload, and unnecessary levels of stress. 

[00:00:18] Scott: Having spent over 20 years leading disruptive high-performing teams who have won international awards for their impact. I've now dedicated my career to helping coach and train leaders and teams to deliver more value and impact at work whilst reducing the risk of burnout, overload, and wasted effort. 

[00:00:34] Scott: This podcast is dedicated to you and thousands like you who know work can and should be better.

[00:00:39] Scott: You'll get tips and insights from me as well as the amazing guests I invite to be the show, many of them have disrupted their industries and are thought leaders, speakers, and authors who have fascinating stories and advice to share. 

[00:00:50] Scott: Thank you for listening. I'm Scott Fulton and welcome to the Rebel Diaries show. 

[00:00:54] Arathi: And there will be people who are passive observers. And I don't mind that, because I don't want like everybody to be active there because it won't work that way. Certain personality types may not like coming on board and commenting.

[00:01:09] Arathi: When you look at employee engagement, it's no more about, that nine to five job. It's about asking people to bring their authentic selves to work, to understanding they're more than their job.

[00:01:20] Arathi: And what I was telling them is that we've hired these people, right? We are trusting them with company secrets. Why would we be afraid to give them that freedom? 

[00:01:30] Scott: Hi on this week's show. I'm speaking to Artie. She's the Head of internal Communications for One Housing A company that helps people to live better by providing high quality homes and care across London and the southeast. She has over 17 years of experience working in internal communications having previously worked for a large multinational bank and India's largest selling newspaper the Times of India, she's also the author of two books and uses her storytelling techniques to reach colleagues and bring communications to life.

[00:01:59] Scott: Hi Artie. Welcome to the Rebel Diaries Podcast.

[00:02:02] Arathi: Thanks Scott for having me.

[00:02:03] Scott: Thanks for being here. Tell us a bit about One housing, how it's been going for you.

[00:02:07] Arathi: I joined one housing four years ago. We are a social housing company and it's a really nice place to work. The people are really good. Everybody is very passionate about what they do. And there are very few like people who would be mean and ask you unreasonable stuff.

[00:02:26] Arathi: I've worked in a bank before where it's a bit more aggressive, so working with the social housing charity has been really nice for my wellbeing. In terms of internal communications, we have around 1300 people. We've just had a merger with the Riverside Group, and so that makes us around 5,000 people strong.. And one of the most exciting projects that we did at One Housing is we rolled out something called Workplace, which is the employee engagement social media app from Meta.

[00:02:59] Scott: Yep. Was Facebook before

[00:03:01] Arathi: Yeah. We did get a GDPR clearance, so

[00:03:04] Scott: Okay.

[00:03:04] Arathi: just in case. So one of the nice things about. When you work in internal coms, a lot of it is very centralized because, people send us stories, we post it, et cetera.

[00:03:15] Arathi: With Workplace, what happened is there was empowerment in terms of we, we have a channel. Called announcements, which is controlled by internal coms. So that's for exec announcements, important organizational updates like pay rise and things like that. And then we have something called stories, where anybody can post.

[00:03:35] Arathi: So like for example, if someone had a tea in there in one of the schemes for the residents. They can take pictures and just put it up or someone and so beautiful sunset they can post that. So that's really changed the game I think for us because it increases connectivity and engagement, especially considering we are all remote and working in virtual worlds.

[00:03:58] Scott: And are a lot of the employees are they frontline workers out and about traveling around?

[00:04:03] Arathi: A lot of them are frontline and which is one of the reasons we chose Workplace because you can download the app on your phone. We did a survey and employees had asked for information on the go and most senior leadership visibility. So what Workplace did is they did give them information on the go because they download the app, they see what's the latest on One Housing. And I also write a blog for my CEO, Richard. And we put it up every Monday. So there's a lot of senior leadership visibility, exec, the exec team can like, comment, do things like that.

[00:04:39] Scott: And do the senior exec team engage with the frontline posts. So I like what you said around, people sharing pictures and stories from the front line sometimes organizations, the CEO and the C-Suite are quite removed, aren't they, from what's going on ground.

[00:04:55] Scott: Has that helped bring that together?

[00:04:57] Arathi: I think definitely it creates a kind of engagement, because I remember there was a question on something to do with development. And the Exec Director of Development actually replied to that question. So that is one part of frontline, employee engagement communication. But what I've seen is with frontline communication, old school sort of comms, techniques seem to work like, a poster, which they can print out.

[00:05:25] Arathi: Stick on their staffroom walls, things like that. Physical versions of communication, because these people are not on their desk. They do not have time to be on the computer all the time.

[00:05:35] Scott: And did you see any resistance around Workplace, the blurring between personal Facebook use and work? Cuz I presume this is on their personal devices, or are they issued a work device as well. So do they have that separation between personal and work?

[00:05:53] Arathi: So a lot of people have work mobiles and some have personal mobiles, there is a bit of resistance, but not too much like it's social media, right? So it has, it follows all the rules of social media. For example, there will be some people who are very actively engaged. Every Monday they'll put a GIF saying it's Monday, and that sort of thing.

[00:06:16] Arathi: And there will be people who are passive observers. And I don't mind that, because I don't want like everybody to be active there. , because it won't work that way. Certain personality types may not like coming on board and commenting, but as long as they're coming on board and seeing everything that's there, I can be assured that, the organizational messages are being read, that they're reaching the target audience.

[00:06:41] Scott: So are you very much data driven in what you're doing and do you get a lot of analytics from the platform?

[00:06:46] Arathi: That is the best thing about Workplace because we have, we can analyze which story was the most popular, how people accessed it, was it on the mobile, was it on the laptop? We can look at trends. We can monitor campaigns. So we have a monthly metric to map engagement and usage.

[00:07:07] Scott: Great. And so you've, have you seen a shift? Were you able to get data before you introduced t he platform to some degree, or were you quite limited? So what I'm asking is, I guess is there a before and after have you been able to measure " Wow this has transformed transformed engagement and awareness across the organization"?

[00:07:24] Arathi: I think there was a 300% increase in engagement, if I remember right when we launched it. So yeah it's definitely a game changer. Also, I think it's very modern, that old traditional style of sending emails and newsletters and they're all nice and good to have, but this is more vibrant and alive.

[00:07:46] Arathi: The interaction is so real time and mirrors what's happening in the world because when you look at employee engagement, it's no more about, that nine to five job. It's about asking people to bring their authentic selves to work, to understanding they're more than their job, so for example, if someone's really into photography, they have the freedom to start a photography club like minded people can join. So that really helps. I think, wellbeing and things like that,

[00:08:18] Scott: Great. And I'm interested if we wind back to your banking time, so you mentioned that quite a different culture. Do you think that, How do you think. A product like workplace would've landed in that kind of environment. How much is the environment dependent on the success of these things?

[00:08:34] Arathi: I think a lot. I think social media employee engagement platform is really good. But with the bank, I would expect a lot more security checks. They may have created their own version of it, but the idea of instant engagement of instantly connecting with your colleagues, all that at the heart of it all that is the correct thing to do, you know, and to not have this internal comms department, which hold all the news and all the content. It's good to give a bit of freedom because like I was talking to someone and they were like, "How can you trust. People will post the right thing. What if it's not sensitive? What if it is, I dunno. It's not part of our diversity mandate that we have."

[00:09:20] Arathi: And what I was telling them is that we've hired these people, right? We are trusting them with company secrets. Why would we be afraid to give them that freedom? You're hiring a certain kind of person, you expect them to be a professional and. In the last three years since it was launched, I think there was just one issue with misogyny and so we had to hide that comment. But I did reach out to that person and understand what their concerns were. And we actually, we have a women's group, so I invited him for a dialogue with the women's group. And cuz when people are commenting or saying things, it's better to get it to the root of the problem and it's not coming from vacuum these opinions, right?

[00:10:04] Scott: Yeah, and I rolled out an internet quite a few years ago now, and it brought in those social elements and had similar conversations. "What if people say bad things or the wrong thing?" And my response was "They're probably gonna do that anyway. So let's have it out in the open and then we can have an adult conversation about it and address it.

[00:10:21] Scott: If it is a disciplinary matter, it'll be dealt with". But the danger is if you say we can't do any of this stuff because someone might say the wrong thing, then everybody suffers, don't they? So you, again, you've gotta have that leadership buy in and trust 

[00:10:33] Arathi: and my experience, like I said, it is just one case I can remember, which is quite good.

[00:10:39] Scott: Yeah. On the banking side, what were the challenges that meant your job was harder than it is in the new role. I say new, been there a while now, but as a professional, obviously it sounded like you alluded to it was quite difficult and frustrating at times? 

[00:10:51] Arathi: I look at them as two different ecosystems and it's not like one is better or one is worse, it's just that they're very different. So with the bank, it was a multinational bank. There were 130,000 employees and you're having like exec road shows, for example, or town halls and you're having it across the region with the dotted line into Paris. So the kind of scale and global metrics is quite large and there's a lot of cross-pollination and learning while at One Housing it's more UK based, and quite London centric.

[00:11:26] Arathi: It is stuff on a more granular level that way..

[00:11:29] Scott: Okay.

[00:11:30] Arathi: So each is it's very different ecosystems and you can't really put the two together. Secondly, in a bank, there is no social purpose. While we do have a charitable foundation and things like that. So that is an add-on. But over here, that is the heart of who we are.

[00:11:49] Scott: Yeah. Yeah. So obviously scale is the challenge then, so how do you reach really large audiences like that on the scale of the bank? Or is it just accepted that you just won't be able to Do you rely on like the management levels to cascade communications down?

[00:12:04] Scott: Because there must be so much noise and emails and big challenge.

[00:12:08] Arathi: Good internal communications person will make sure it cascades down. So with the bank particularly, for example, they weren't frontline workers. We have a very engaged central audience, and one of the things I love is technology, and I think internal comms can make exceptional gains from technology.

[00:12:29] Arathi: It, it is about looking at mechanisms to deliver this kind of news. The second thing is if a. Our headquarters was in Paris and I was in the Middle East. They're culturally quite different. So you have to make sure that the communication campaigns, the messaging, et cetera, is culturally relevant.

[00:12:49] Scott: Okay. Interesting.

[00:12:50] Arathi: very interesting, keeping the core of the message intact.

[00:12:53] Scott: Okay, and that requires more effort and work then to, was this, was the team scaled appropriately to support you in doing that?

[00:13:00] Arathi: The team was skilled appropriately. But I don't think there's something like more work or more effort, right? There is a job to be done. There are x number of steps you need to do the job. And I think if you like your job it's quite fun actually.

[00:13:15] Scott: As long as you've got the capacity. That was why I asked that question. Cause I know a lot of, certainly the companies I've worked with and people I know in this space, they internal comms seems to get the short shrift. They seem to be underfunded compared to the external customer facing comms, cuz that's where you know, the money comes in so that you get these internal comms people just swamped with, " we want you to do this and this and organize these events".

[00:13:38] Scott: And they'd like, Is there," I'm like half the size of the public team", but it sounds like you had that appropriate balance, that appropriate scale ?

[00:13:46] Arathi: Yeah, I think the internal comms, by nature of it, you will always have 80 ad hoc tasks to do. It is like all kinds of random things and very important things will come your way. But it's always about prioritizing, seeing what's needed, what is business critical, what can impact the business reputation, Does it affect our customers?

[00:14:09] Arathi: And how do you keep like a motivated, engaged work force alive, and feel good about belonging to the company..

[00:14:17] Scott: Yeah. Yeah you've mentioned a few bits there. How is that, how you prioritize then is based on, cuz say you've got. 10 pieces of work they all want. "Mine's more important than everybody elses" . How do you prioritize then, rather than who shouts the loudest.

[00:14:29] Arathi: What I do is I work quite closely with the exec team, and obviously their requests will be treated as priority. Simply because they have a lot on their plate and the business is driven by them, and what they're asking of me may feed back into an external meeting or some priority they have.

[00:14:48] Arathi: So definitely I would look at that. The second thing I would look at is, oh, anything that will impact our customers, That's who we deliver to. We don't exist without customers. So that would take the second priority. The third thing would probably be, I'd look at the corporate plan, I'd look at the people plan and my internal comms strategy, and there would be a dotted line through all three of them and see what we need to deliver accordingly.

[00:15:16] Arathi: For example, it's just a really simple example. We had two surveys coming up and I can't run two surveys because, my colleagues will get confused. And so what I did was I wrote a mail to both execs, saying "There is this survey and this survey from each directorate, which do you think I should prioritize?"

[00:15:37] Arathi: And so they had a conversation and they let me know.. Because, and I think that's the heart of internal coms. You have to coordinate, you have to speak to everybody. You have to have an overview of the organization because, I know almost everything that's happening across directorates. Just by nature of my job, it's, and I should know that.

[00:15:58] Scott: Yeah. And to do that, Yeah it's about building those relationships. Do you spend quite a lot of time sitting with them, working with them, meeting them? Or is it, largely remote, but you can still do that virtually?

[00:16:08] Arathi: Yeah it's quite tricky. When you think about bonding time and things like that, because everybody can, will be times trapped. But I think if somebody new into internal coms was asking my advice about how to build stakeholder, engagement. I would say that, be very careful with your first jobs, deliver well on them, earn trust.

[00:16:29] Arathi: That's really important. So once you earn trust and if you say, can we do this a little later, et cetera, they will trust you because you've done that before. And the other simply principle I uses, I never say no, I'm like, I try and understand what the problem is. So it's not a no shall we do this instead?

[00:16:48] Arathi: Shall we do this later? Because nobody is asking you to design a birthday card for their child or something. It's their work. It's our work. It's the organization's work. So I feel that kind of perspective is very important to understand that when we work together is when we can deliver..

[00:17:06] Scott: So it's very much taken that collaborative approach. Do you ever find people just throw stuff almost over the fence and say, " We need a comms plan, or we need a new logo, or we need a brand. Can you just get on with it" and give you the solution? Do you find that? Or do people ask for your advice on what the best solution is?

[00:17:22] Scott: Because that's tied into that trust, isn't it?

[00:17:24] Arathi: It's a mix of both. And I think when someone comes and says, "We need a logo, we need a poster". It's really important to ask why do you need it? What is the end result? 

[00:17:35] Scott: it's my favorite word. Why

[00:17:37] Arathi: Yeah. If you know the end result, you'll know which comms channel and which comms initiative would be the right thing to do, because it may not even be what they're asking for.

[00:17:47] Scott: Yeah. That's interesting. So I know storytelling is an important thing for you in, you're an author, aren't you? Is that correct?

[00:17:55] Arathi: Yeah, that's I've written two books, a children's book and a memoir

[00:17:58] Scott: Great. What's the children's book about?

[00:17:59] Arathi: It's reverse Enid Blyton. So I grew up in India and there are three kids in a little village in Kerala, which is the South of India, and their mother's jewelry gets stolen, so they try to find the thief. Like I grew up with a lot of five find outers and Famous Five . So it's that sort of thing.,

[00:18:19] Scott: Great. And how does your storytelling skill apply to your job? In terms internal comms?

[00:18:26] Arathi: My background as I was in advertising, so I was a creative director, copywriter, and then I moved in into internal communications and I also began writing books. What I think is, if you think of a colleague that is someone who you want to present information, which is active, engaging, good to read because corporate speak can be very boring if it's not engaging.

[00:18:51] Arathi: And I think that's where storytelling comes into play. Or for example, if I'm making an announcement, there is a way to build it up instead of just putting facts together and copy pasting the brief. So I. I think that's one of my strengths. Like I can do strategy and creative. And I can do creative because I believe in storytelling.

[00:19:11] Scott: So can you give us an example of how you've used storytelling, say from a brief? It was very dry, from the, like a chief exec, how you would, walk us through that kind of process.

[00:19:21] Arathi: Oh I'll give you like a example of a fun campaign. So we had GDPR training. 

[00:19:27] Scott: sounds very boring,

[00:19:28] Arathi: yeah, it's a dry message and we weren't getting enough people doing it. And so it, it was the time of, the Black Lives Matter protests and things like that. So I came up with this really fun campaign, which was just people holding boards.

[00:19:45] Arathi: So that's the design. And on the board it says, Freedom of speech. Take freedom to miss your GDPR training. It's. To assemble peacefully, take right to miss your GDPR training cross. So it really caught everybody's imagination. And what did I do there? I took a story from the outside world and retrofitted it into a story about gdpr.

[00:20:09] Scott: And what was the impact? 

[00:20:10] Arathi: I, I think, The impact was, I think we had 70 over 80% I think completed their training.. But the good part is I also got a lot of messages offline saying, " Hey, this is fun". It caught the imagination.

[00:20:24] Scott: And did you sell to them the benefits of doing it as well or was it just, It was a difficult one, isn't it? Cuz it's like a compulsory thing. You have to do it.

[00:20:32] Arathi: Yeah. So with gdpr, I think everybody knows what it is. So I didn't have to like school them about, what is it? There was a few lines on why it's important, but mostly it's about, it's buckle up. It's the law if you know that seat belt campaign, it's that sort of thing. But the thing is, even though it's that it can still be fun, it can still be engag.

[00:20:53] Scott: Yeah. Do you ever do like competitions as well to try and engage people? Do you find that works or doesn't work?

[00:21:00] Arathi: We, we have like customer service awards, so we say that every quarter, and actually we are just running one now, so I've just got the whole list of nominations and what we say is customer service is not just external. It's internal. My colleague is my customer when they ask me for something, for example, I'm in finance and someone from HR asks for something.

[00:21:22] Arathi: The HR person is your customer. And I think recognition, a culture of recognition is really important because everybody is working hard and it doesn't cost you anything to say great. know, Which is one of our values. And and that's where Workplace again, comes into force because we have a page called Shoutouts.

[00:21:42] Arathi: So people put Jifs and Superman, jifs, and they have a lot of fun, like you are a star and it can be for simple things.

[00:21:50] Scott: One of the things behind the success of organizations and engagement with employees is them all feeling they're in it together, they're aligned to common goals. They're clear what those goals and objectives are. And it sounds like you've got that within the current company?

[00:22:05] Arathi: Yeah, I think it's a really good organization because the exec team walks the talk. Like my CEO, I'm doing a bunch of exec road shows for him right now, and he and the senior leadership team are actually going to schemes which are not centrally based and having a conversation. And some of these schemes are quite small.

[00:22:26] Arathi: Like I've been in a meeting where there've just been 10 people, but the CEO is there and he's talking to them and he's introducing himself and they can ask. Anything, any questions they may have. So that sort of senior leadership visibility, to show that we are listening we have an all staff q and a and the questions which are not answered we collate them.

[00:22:47] Arathi: Answer them and publish it on workplace just to say, " no question you ask will ever be unanswered. If you don't know, we'll tell you. We don't know, and we'll tell you when we know and we'll come back to you on it". Yeah I think it's really important to have senior leaders who believe in that sort of open, transparent, workplace and they want people to be happy and productive..

[00:23:07] Scott: Sounds like that it could be very different if you didn't have that support at the top as an internal comms professional,

[00:23:14] Arathi: yeah, it's,

[00:23:15] Scott: banging your head against the wall

[00:23:17] Arathi: I am quite lucky that way. I think like in, I think I've been in three organizations where I did internal coms. One was India's largest selling newspaper called The Times of India, and. This. Yeah. And the bank. And now with One Housing all terrific CEOs,

[00:23:34] Scott: Sounds like this one might be a favorite.

[00:23:36] Arathi: Yeah. But I've been here four years.

[00:23:38] Scott: Brilliant. What are the biggest challenges that you see? Are there still, are there any challenges or frustrations that you still come across in trying to your goals and objectives?

[00:23:48] Arathi: I'll talk specifically. I think right now we are going through a merger and it's, there is a transition plan and it's really important to take our colleagues from A to C, we are the B we are the little bridge in between. And to make sure that it's a done right and that employees feel that we are communicating to them transparently, telling them what's up. Those kind of situations are always challenging and it's important to get feedback, to have your ear on the ground, to do all the right things and be as transparent as you can.

[00:24:23] Scott: Cuz those things could be really unsettling for people, can't they? And the lack of information is one of the things that makes that worse.

[00:24:30] Arathi: Yeah. And it breeds rumors. So that's my advice always. If we don't know, we'll go say we don't. And we will let you know when we'll know. But not saying anything I think is dangerous.

[00:24:42] Arathi: We have monthly updates. We have all staff q and a's, we have the exec road shows we have newsletters, so there are multiple touchpoints where we are speaking about this Workplace has a dedicated partnership page so you know where questions are asked, all the important documents.

[00:25:02] Scott: And do when the merge happens, is there gonna be then decisions around technology or platforms are, they're already using Workplace as well.

[00:25:11] Scott: a counterpart you'll have to work with? How is all that gonna pan out? Or is it too early to know?

[00:25:15] Arathi: No, they use Yammer and actually the merger has already happened. it happened in. December 1st, 2021. So it's one year of the merger, but we are on a two year like transition plan before we fully become one entity. So yeah, so we use Workplace, they use Yammer. We are having conversations on which one to use, et cetera.

[00:25:38] Arathi: Tech will change and yeah, there is a lot of change transformation programs that will happen.

[00:25:45] Scott: Change is inevitable, isn't it? It's always happening.

[00:25:47] Arathi: I like change, actually. I'm quite happy with it.

[00:25:50] Scott: Yeah. I always say it's an opportunity. It should be seen as an opportunity, not a threat, wherever possible. Cuz that's when the growth happens and new things happen and new opportunities. 

[00:25:59] Arathi: Basically our slogan for this merger is "better and stronger together". And I really feel that's what's happening because there's so much of cross pollination of learning and ideas and you know how they do stuff. We can learn how we do stuff. They learn that sort of thing.

[00:26:14] Scott: I know one of the important topics for lots of organizations is, diversity and wellbeing, big topics you hear about a lot. Are you involved in that side of things as well? That must be an integral part in terms of internal communications?

[00:26:27] Arathi: Yeah, absolutely. And I, and as a BAME person, as a woman, I'm really passionate about diversity. So I sit on the steering group of all of our four diversity groups. And I think what communication can do is it helps with intersectionality. For example, our BAME group, an I L G B T group they may we are having black history month now.

[00:26:53] Arathi: And I connected with the LGBT group and I was like, maybe we can have a black l g. famous icons for Black History Month. So that sort of intersectionality is really important. And I think diversity isn't just lip service. I, it's important for people to see the organization is inclusive, that what we are putting out there is inclusive.

[00:27:16] Arathi: So even our communications, it can't just be you. One kind of person. It has to be a mix of people. For example, when we had women's awards we said nominate a woman and anybody who identifies as a woman, so that's language and that sort of inclusion is really important.

[00:27:37] Arathi: And I think we can't talk about diversity without wellbeing because post covid, you realize a lot of people at home, a lot of people are fighting a lot of unseen battles. And because things happen to people in their private lives don't know what they're facing and to ensure that mechanisms are in place, for, to help them if they need it.

[00:27:59] Scott: Yeah. What kind of examples have you got for that what the organization's doing to support? 

[00:28:02] Arathi: For example, with the cost of living crisis we have something called financial Friday. Which is we put up a post on tips on how you can save money every Friday. So it's great. And it, it's not like the organization is spending any money on it, but someone will read it and see that we are thinking about it.

[00:28:22] Arathi: We have a healthcare provider, an employee assistance program where someone's going through a difficult time, they can chat or call a counselor for free and they have counseling sessions. 

[00:28:35] Scott: Part of your job is to increase awareness of those services. I presume?

[00:28:39] Arathi: And to, I, we, so we have the IC bible, right? The IC calendar. So we have all the key wellbeing dates, and what we do is we divide our wellbeing into physical mental health and financial wellbeing because we think all three are extremely important.

[00:28:57] Scott: Yeah. They're all linked together aren't they?.

[00:28:58] Arathi: Yeah.

[00:28:59] Scott: One of the things I ask all my guests is if you could take one book with you to a desert island, what would it be?

[00:29:04] Scott: And you're stranded there for life. One book.

[00:29:07] Arathi: Oh, Ulysses by James Joyce. I'll finally read it then.

[00:29:11] Scott: I think you're the second guest who said that. It's on lots of people's lists.

[00:29:16] Scott: So I'm sure our listeners will have got lots from this episode. Thank you so much. If anyone wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that?

[00:29:23] Arathi: I'm on LinkedIn. They'll need to spell my name right. 

[00:29:26] Scott: Oh I'll put, I can put the link to that in the show notes

[00:29:29] Scott: Artie Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been great chatting to you. 

[00:29:31] Arathi: Thank you, Scott. It was great talking to you too.

[00:29:34] Scott: A big, thank you for listening to the Rebel Diaries show your time is precious so it is appreciated. The show has a Facebook group for you to engage with others, discuss topics, get access to exclusive content and let me know what you think of the show. There's a link to the group in the show notes or search Facebook for "Rebel Diaries community". 

[00:29:51] Scott: Until next week take care be a rebel and deliver work with impact.