[00:00:00] Scott: Hey listeners. Welcome to this week's episode. Ryan has very kindly offered a copy of his free book. To the first person who leaves a review of the podcast on their favorite podcasting app sends me a screenshot and you'll get sent a copy of the book. You've got to be quick first person to do it. The link to send me the screenshot is in the top of the show notes. . I hope you enjoy this episode. 

[00:00:58] Ryan: So really a lot of it is getting people to understand that there's more out there than just you and how you see the world is great, but other people have all different experiences and it's just, we just have to be a little bit more accepting and understanding.

[00:01:12] Ryan: Then it's really tough to go back from that, because at that point, a lot of the damage has been done and some of it is irreparable because the, they can't go back on the platform now.

[00:01:23] Ryan: "I got the non smiley message, right? That means kiss of death. Now I gotta start getting my resume ready, looking for a new job." 

[00:01:30] Scott: hi Ryan. Welcome to the Rebel Diaries podcast.

[00:01:34] Ryan: A pleasure to be here. Thanks for the invite.

[00:01:35] Scott: And you are in Canada right now is that correct?

[00:01:38] Ryan: I am. Yeah, it's a little bit warmer than many people expect at this time.

[00:01:43] Scott: Yeah, we're just at the end of our summer over here in the UK. That's long gone, but it was nice and warm over here. 

[00:01:47] Scott: Unusually hot,

[00:01:48] Scott: What got you into this industry? What was your trigger point for saying "I really want to help people in this space?"

[00:01:54] Ryan: Yeah, that's a really interesting question because the helping people came to me much earlier. I realized at a very young age, I'm not gonna spend too much time going on this, but at a really young age, I realized that I really enjoyed helping people. And that's something that made me feel good.

[00:02:09] Ryan: I kind of identified that when I was even like, as a child, I just liked helping my classmates and helping others and that kind of fostered and grew as I grew. And as I learned, and at some point when I was in university and in college, I realized that I think the best way for me to do that, to spend most of my time helping people.

[00:02:27] Ryan: Is to actually become an educator and become a teacher. So I studied education, I studied psychology and I studied how people learn. And that's what I wanted to do is help people learn. And I realized that a lot of how people learn is encoded in language. So the more I could adjust my language, the more I can, more I say tools I have at my disposal, then the better chance I'll be able to reach a wider group of students and a wider group help more people.

[00:02:59] Ryan: So that's what led me into to helping. And then along the way, I was very fortunate cuz I was in academia about eight or 10 years ago now probably about 10 years ago now. And I had a group of friends who were in the startup world, developing companies, they were entrepreneurs and they were trying to grow their own companies.

[00:03:16] Ryan: And they had asked me for some help with with their pitches and their business presentations and their communication internally with their team, it was causing some friction and there was some conflict resolution to do and things like that, which happens in many startups, especially tightly knit, people that work together every day like bands and so forth.

[00:03:32] Ryan: That's why they always break up. I got yeah, called in to, to do that. And that wasn't just in parallel with me focusing, I became a professor in the meantime in academia, and I was really focusing on communication and in particularly how to communicate in a way that it sends a message, but also maintains respect and also maintains that level of professionalism and ultimately enhances productivity.

[00:03:56] Ryan: That's what happened. It was two things at once. And when I oversimplify a little bit, there was a lot that happened in the meantime but yeah, I hope that addressed your question. I didn't go off track too much, Scott.

[00:04:06] Scott: No. That's great. So did you go from academia straight into the entrepreneurship, or did you do a bit in like corporate business for a while to see what it's like on the inside?

[00:04:15] Ryan: No, that's a great question. So I did both at the same time. I was I, when I first became a professor of communication, it just so happened. I was vacationing with some friends who were stressing over a pitch that they had to do for investment. And if they didn't get the money. They were gonna have to lay off people and it was not gonna be good.

[00:04:31] Ryan: And so I just, they were discussing amongst themselves or three of them. And then, and I just started chiming and giving my unsolicited opinion as I do sometimes. And and they were receptive to it and they asked me how do I structure? Why will that influence them? How will that make a difference if I say this first, instead of that first, and I explained it to them like the psychology and how to for lack of a better term hack people's thinking and how to bring up, influence the outcome you want. And they were really, I don't wanna say impressed. They were just like it, like their, and I, their eyes were opened. It was like a world that they hadn't thought of. And they were like I was just giving it to them.

[00:05:05] Ryan: And saying that, this find the value like Ikea, like here's the table, build it yourself type of thing. As opposed to them putting it together for them and saying, look now look at all that we can do with it. So yeah, that, it happened in parallel. And I got into the corporate world after the startup and entrepreneur world, cuz as they grew I sort of went by referrals and said, "Ryan, you gotta help these people over here. And this is a little bit bigger company than you've worked with, but they need your help here". So I really, I got off to a start through friends of mine.

[00:05:33] Scott: Great. And why do you think people don't get it? Why do they default into the wrong way, if that makes sense. So that team, those people that you helped them early on. Why didn't, why do you think they didn't see the right way to do it? Does that make sense?

[00:05:46] Scott: I'm probably not asking that question particularly well.

[00:05:48] Ryan: The reason is because a lot of people and psychologically speaking, they view things and they articulate an experience or a procedure the way they understand it, which is not necessarily the way that the audience will receive.

[00:06:03] Ryan: And unfortunately I, obviously, I don't like the stereotype everyone's different, but there's certain groups of people, for example, engineers that have gained much of their success, thinking in methodologies and frameworks and different types of equations and that's how they compute, that's how they understand process.

[00:06:20] Ryan: So we do that for so long. You start thinking that's how everyone operates. There's many different groups of people in the world and often investors have different set of interests and other factors at play. If that makes sense.

[00:06:33] Scott: I've read recently about, I think it's called knowledge bias where you just assume that everyone has the same knowledge as you, so it's almost like you just, oh, I don't need to tell them that cuz they know that, but , there's a very good chance. They don't.

[00:06:45] Ryan: yeah, exactly. Or there's, they have overcome some hurdle. I had this once with a company, they were making a smart technology and they had to overcome some hurdle that no one else was able to do. And they were really proud of that. And they really wanted to showcase that to the investors or to in their series B pitch.

[00:07:02] Ryan: But I had to really work with them. It took a lot of delicate tact to get, cause they're very proud of us. I didn't want, downplay their feelings or, but the fact of the matter was they don't, the investors don't care about that. They want to know because of. How many can they sell? What will be the return and all those kinds of things.

[00:07:19] Scott: Yeah. So you do help a lot of people with pitches, for investment and things like that. Then is that the space where you operate.

[00:07:25] Ryan: to when I started back, when I, eight, 10 years ago, I still do when I'm asked if it's a special request, but cause I, I try to help as much as I can, but, and nowadays it's more training leadership training and team cohesiveness, training, communication training, of course. And I do a lot of executive coaching.

[00:07:41] Scott: And do you. I I know the answer's a kind of loaded question, but a lot of team problems and leadership problems fall down to communication or lack of communication. Don't they

[00:07:51] Ryan: Great question. Yeah, no they do they a lot. Oftentimes. It's one of the most overlooked skills. I tell people and there's a million comparisons, it's like baseball or we say like in, in America at least. Throwing a pitch like you're you could throw a ball. Yeah. You could okay.

[00:08:06] Ryan: Go be a pitcher. It's no, it's a totally different thing. It's like anyone can throw, but how can you throw how do you learn how to throw all the different type. It's a little bit of that. People just expect that, oh, you were an excellent performer in your current role. We're gonna give you a director.

[00:08:18] Ryan: We're gonna give you a leadership title and you'll be an excellent leader too. It's okay. Maybe, but that's a difference. That's a big ask. You can't there're not, that's not apples to apples is a different skillset. And then with the different skill set, there's a lot of dynamic changes, right? Like your former colleagues or peers are now your subordinates and now are you gonna change the way you treat them?

[00:08:39] Ryan: Are you gonna let them get away with things or are you gonna be firm with them? Like developing a leadership style is important too. And again, unfortunately a lot of people take these things for granted. And if you do, and they get overlooked, it could create a lot of problems very quickly.

[00:08:53] Ryan: And sometimes it's tough to undo. 

[00:08:55] Scott: Is there a one size fits all or a journey you take people on. Are there like stages you take people through when you're helping them or is it quite bespoke depending on the specific circumstances and the individual?

[00:09:05] Ryan: It really does depend on the circumstances in the individual. I do go through, I, I. I usually like, nine times outta 10, I'll spend time diagnosing where the issue is. Sometimes it's a systemic issue in the way that the communication or the way that the organization is set up, like the workflow or the channels to get a project approved or what have you.

[00:09:26] Ryan: Other times it is it's individual they're, having issues. In other areas of their life that's in affecting their work. Or sometimes it's the misunderstanding. It's a misalignment of philosophy. Some people are very focused on just achieving objectives regardless of the cost and other people are more like, okay, we need to hit our objectives, but we need to make sure that people are okay. First we can't just trudge through, just disregarding people's feelings or what's going on with them. So there's a lot of different personalities. People are really fascinating to me. And when you put a group of five of them in a team and say, we're gonna hit this outcome.

[00:10:02] Ryan: It's really interesting to see the different in my career, I've seen so many different outcome of how, like it's gone off the rails or things that happened. And sometimes I'm still to this day, I'm like, "wow, I didn't see that coming". When I hear what happened, so yeah. It's 

[00:10:15] Scott: Any examples you can share?.

[00:10:16] Ryan: um, Off the top of my head.

[00:10:18] Ryan: Yeah, there was one team that was working together for the first time and through the process of there, they had to create a new marketing plan. And then in the process, all of these other like things like, some, one person had a death in the family, so they were taken away and then another person, two people were competing to take credit for the overall product and then out of nowhere. So one of the one someone just quit, which was not that uncommon, except they quit and went to a competing company. And then everyone was like, are they gonna, even though they have a non-compete yeah, like what's gonna happen there.

[00:10:56] Ryan: Should we even go through with this? Should we pivot? And then, so I came in after all this was going, and then they were like, "Ryan, can you figure out what's happening here?" And I, it was just, yeah, it was just a mess. It was to sort all sort, all the different components apart. It was really interesting.

[00:11:11] Scott: And what kind of approach did you take?

[00:11:13] Ryan: I had to like systematically sort once I had to took some time to discern it because people aren't gonna be forthcoming. Some people are, but most people are, they're gonna downplay. Oh yeah. And then, so I ended up taking. Three weeks off cuz I couldn't find the right dog food in the dog store.

[00:11:30] Ryan: I'm like, what? So it, it is. But once you get down to, to brass tacks I ended up working with them individually. It took an individual approach and then I had to bring them back together and then I had to instill integrate a new way to communicate and to work together.

[00:11:44] Ryan: In a system that will help them meet their goals and really help them prioritize what to focus on and what not to. And it takes, sometimes it takes a long time to build trust with certain people, because we all have a past and experiences and some people bring their scars with them. 

[00:11:59] Scott: Yeah, I was gonna ask if you took an individual approach versus team, it sounded like you did both. Cuz yeah. If you people aren't gonna be necessarily forthcoming in a team situation. If there's some tension already, either they might parti hate the person next to them. They're not gonna say that out loud, but they might need to be willing to open up to you on a one-to-one and explain why.

[00:12:16] Scott: And what's the, the baggage that's there.

[00:12:17] Ryan: Exactly. Yeah. And then you then you bring them together and see how that works a little bit. Then you like two or three at a time, then you, so it, sometimes it, unfortunately it doesn't, it's not like a quick fix sometimes, but what are you gonna do?

[00:12:29] Scott: Have you ever come across somebody that just couldn't be fixed where it's just like this person has to go.

[00:12:34] Scott: They are just a team terrorist as call them.

[00:12:37] Ryan: A team terrorist. I have, yeah that's not that's unfortunately it's not uncommon where there, I shouldn't say most times it can be corrected and it's like a misalignment. Some people are out there. The most often issue is that some folks are out for individual credit or they're out to, they want to do the way that they think it should be done as opposed to the way. And that is so powerful, it's it takes a little while to realign them to what is our outcome here. And if there's a different way to achieve the same outcome, Should we not choose the easiest way to, or the most effective way to do it.

[00:13:14] Ryan: So sometimes it's a matter of that, but yeah, there, there have been times where they're just on their own and they've just decided and made a conscious decision that "I'm gonna do my own thing as long as I can here. And then that's it". So unfortunately at that time I have to make a recommendation, but I leave that as a last resort.

[00:13:33] Scott: Do you tend to get called in when things have gone really to pot and it's " we need to get you in Ryan to sort this mess out" are there times when you think actually I wish I'd been brought in a bit sooner cause

[00:13:43] Ryan: Yes.

[00:13:44] Scott: Set off on the right foot at at the start rather than clean up the mess afterwards or try to.

[00:13:49] Ryan: Yes. Yes. And what's interesting about that is usually when I give I'll give a, like a keynote speech or I'll give a training session. I'll deliver training and it's, it happens almost without fail. I almost have to, I just see it coming. The there's the director, the VP, whoever the most senior person in the room is, will approach me afterwards.

[00:14:08] Ryan: And they'll say, "okay, I need you to work with four of my guys". Like they just, they have they already know. "These people are causing problem or there's conflict. And I didn't know what to do before, but now after listening to you, you can do this, you can rectify this" and I'm always like interested to hear what the situation is and I'm happy to try, but sometimes yeah, sometimes it's more challenging than they let on, because like you said, it's been let go for so long that animosity and all these things have built up.

[00:14:36] Ryan: And now it's not the project. That's the problem. It's each other. 

[00:14:40] Scott: Yeah. And I've seen an organization I've worked in before, where it just gets left. And I dunno whether it's a lack of confidence or the organization isn't geared up to, to deal with people who are like, just. I call it dysfunctional. Or they're just someone else can solve this problem for us. We need to get someone in, but sometimes it's just festers and festers and festers causes pain for the whole team.

[00:15:02] Scott: And it's just not helpful for anybody really so it's good there's people like you around to help.

[00:15:07] Ryan: Yeah. You know what and the, I realize that afterwards, I'm like, there's probably not a lot. There are people like me out there don't get me wrong, it's not as if we're, easy to find, you can't just stop at the corner and be like, oh, we'll get pick up a litre of milk.

[00:15:19] Ryan: So it's different for some folks. And when they see me, they're like, oh, yes. Okay. Yeah. Now you can do it because, we didn't know how to solve this problem before.

[00:15:26] Scott: And I guess part of that is you don't wanna be a crutch that then when you've finished, that everything falls apart again. So how do you get them to, sustain, the good work that you've put in to help the team? Does that just naturally happen or do you have like steps to advise, these are the things to do once I've gone or do they just keep you on like retainer just in case it gets wrong again?

[00:15:45] Ryan: Yeah, that's an interesting question too, because a lot of situations are different, but I like, and I tell them this very upfront, so I strive to set up to install a system that once I leave it will be self-maintaining. However, they're obviously, sometimes there's a lot of change, especially nowadays, like it was different it's so different 10 years ago when I started companies where much more stable. I find now there's so much movement between people, between jobs, between positions. So things are much more in flux. So it has to be a little bit more of a loose philosophy. And oftentimes it ends up with me working with the leaders to show them like how this is what your priority should be and if X do Y if A do B kind of some steps to help manage the people, because at the end of the day, that's what it is. It's like people, I don't wanna say management really is people management, but it's more like how to optimize your workforce your team, and that oftentimes comes down to leadership.

[00:16:43] Scott: So from a psychological perspective then at that human level, what are the common problems that you see that are the triggers for? I call it bad behavior to summarize it, or just lack of being a good communicator and lack of confidence and being focused on I'm just in it for me.

[00:17:00] Scott: When you bring your academic experience in what kind of traits are you seeing that are the causes?

[00:17:05] Ryan: So one of the main causes that I one I'm trying to think of some key ones, but we're all human. So we all have human behavior and human instincts. And I think people often forget that. And that's something that's really important to, to remember because at the end of the day, like people have lives and I've worked with people who, as it turns out we're going through a difficult divorce or people who were in a custody battle for their children or people who, they had a death in the family and they didn't tell anyone. So there's always other factors that can, knock us any of us off our game for a little bit and can affect us in different ways.

[00:17:46] Ryan: And that's something else. You read it in a textbook. Like I said, I studied it for a long time and then, you teach it in school and those are two things, but then when you actually see. In the real world, it's totally different. It like, it, it really does hit you in the heart. And then I have, you have a job to do and you want to optimize the team, but you really do like someone's going through something serious.

[00:18:05] Ryan: So oftentimes people get stuck in their own world. And I think that they forget that other people, they say everyone that you meet's fighting a battle that you know nothing about. And I think there's a lot of truth to that. Maybe not necessarily. Like a huge it might not be world war 3, but it could be like, something serious that's affecting them.

[00:18:24] Ryan: And then how that gets projected outward is not necessarily an accurate reflection of how they feel towards you or anything. It's just that they're, they're in pain right now. They're dealing with something else. So I think people are very quick to judge these days I say these days, like I'm an old man looking back but I do find that people often they jump the gun and they're really quick to come to conclusions.

[00:18:47] Ryan: "This person said that, this person didn't send me an email yesterday when they were supposed to. I know they're trying to screw me up at my timetable because I, they think I'm mad at them for this" and that just snowballs into something like, it can. So really a lot of it is getting people to understand that there's more out there than just you and how you see the world is great, but other people have all different experiences and it's just, we just have to be a little bit more accepting and understanding.

[00:19:13] Scott: Yeah. And I guess to counter that is the leader's relationship with that individual. It's an individual thing, whether they want to share what's going on at home, obviously, but if they feel safe to do so, then that helps doesn't it. Oh, they didn't, they seemed a bit short with me today.

[00:19:27] Scott: I must have done something. You just assume it's you don't you we vear to the negative and get a bit paranoid that, you gave that example of the email. And if that's isn't dealt with, as it just grows and grows and grows, and potentially you've just created this whole scenario in your head that none of it's true because this person's going through something you just don't know about.

[00:19:43] Ryan: Yeah. And, a perfect example. I've had I've worked with people before who, they'll send, closely knit team and they'll send a, the CFO send a text to the CEO and the CEO doesn't get back to 'em right away and doesn't get back to 'em until the next day. And previously they'd get back within an hour easy.

[00:20:01] Ryan: So now there's been a day gap. So again, the CFO is thinking. "What did I do? Why is he upset with me? Why isn't he responding to me? What's happening here?" And then, come from the, when they finally meet and talk in person like the next day, that's the question? " Did I upset you? Why are you upset with me?"

[00:20:18] Ryan: And this, he was like, "what are you talking about? "He's no. And then. He has a reason why he couldn't text, but he doesn't wanna share that. So then there becomes like, "why do you want, why you always have to be so needy "type of thing. "Why do you need a response from me?" And then that kind of grows and festers into a problem, right?

[00:20:34] Ryan: When there's other tools that can be used, like linguistically and also approach wise. That would negate that, that would resolve that before it happened. Like they, they say, what was the old saying from Benjamin Franklin? Like an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure type of thing 

[00:20:50] Scott: I like that. And do you think it's more challenging in this modern remote working world now where we're behind screens and we are typing messages and there's less face to face interaction cuz you know, when you're in a room with somebody, you pick up very different cues than on a message or even a video call don't you, have you seen that play out a bit in, in recent years with the pandemic and everything else?

[00:21:10] Ryan: Oh, yeah. Yeah. The pandemic has reeked havoc on a lot of people's communication skills, as well as how people approach communicate like people by nature want to do an easier simpler thing. And want, we want to conserve our cognitive energy. It's not that we're lazy. It's that it's evolutionary.

[00:21:29] Ryan: Like we might need that later this afternoon. So I don't wanna burn it all this morning if I don't have to. So if someone can come up with an easier way yeah. I'll do that. If someone can think for me, I'll do that. So with communication, it's the same thing. They're like, oh, we'll use Slack or we'll use Teams, or this is how we send our emails now this is our new messaging system. Just use this and problem solved. No, the problem's not solved because on the other side of that computer, there's another human who is, so that at the end of the day, we're all human beings and people try to remove that from the equation and just, "oh, it'll be so efficient" that it's yeah, it will maybe for a day or two.

[00:22:07] Ryan: And then when that goes off the rail, the problem is when that goes off, the rail and people don't use that effectively. And when they lean on the new platforms and they think that's gonna solve all their problems, Then it's then it's really tough to go back from that, because at that point, a lot of the damage has been done and some of it is irreparable because the, they can't go back on the platform now.

[00:22:29] Ryan: So there's usually other intricate factors there. It's really fascinating. What I do. I gotta tell you.

[00:22:33] Scott: Yeah, so I've given presentations in person to an audience, which is the best cuz you get the feedback you get like smiles, you get nods, you get, hands up, you get that interaction trying to do it over video call is very different. 

[00:22:47] Scott: I'll share an example with you in a minute that was just awful for me, but I'll share that in a minute. It's a very different dynamic. Isn't it?

[00:22:52] Ryan: Yeah, no, I'm. I'm excited to hear now you built up the anticipation. I want to hear your story, but but yeah, I know I have, early on during the pandemic, it was more predominant early on 20, 20, 20, 21 because yeah, a lot of people, it wasn't just, they weren't used to delivering online.

[00:23:08] Ryan: A lot of people weren't used to being in the audience online, so shut their cameras off and then, and then they couldn't figure out the mute button. And so a lot of it in the settings we're foreign to some people, so someone comes in and it Bing, and then all of a sudden they're trying to present and there's 80 bings happening, 

[00:23:24] Scott: or there's a video of a cat instead of them.

[00:23:26] Ryan: yeah.

[00:23:27] Scott: it's all those funny ones.

[00:23:28] Ryan: Yeah. And it's do you know, you're sharing your cat right now? Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that happens. We, when I'm working with folks, especially if it's high stakes pitch or presentation via a virtual, I always try to help them to set up their room and set themselves up for the best shot of success beforehand.

[00:23:48] Ryan: And a lot of times it comes down to yeah. Making sure the settings are correct, making sure. You give the audience very instruc, like a specific instructions what you'd like them to do because that's important too. They need to know if they have a question. Do they shout it out? Do they type it in the chat?

[00:24:03] Ryan: Do they just hold it for later? Will there be breaks built in? So that little things like that need to be considered, I would say it takes a lot more prep work, but. Yeah, it ha it's funny at first people are like "no, it's fine. I'll just click it and I'll just start. It's gonna be easier actually. Cause I'm at home. I can just talk." 

[00:24:17] Ryan: And then they realize very shortly when they're looking at all black screens, they're like, does everyone understand? And there's nothing there. It's okay, I guess I'll keep talking. And then they.

[00:24:26] Scott: Yeah, so that's, that was my example, actually. So I did a a pitch presentation. A few months ago to a group of probably about 30 people and the person organizing the meeting. I won't go into detail who it was, but he had his camera on the organizer, but everyone else's camera was off and it was just surreal.

[00:24:47] Scott: And of course I go into a presentation mode and I'm just seeing blank screens So I'm talking and I'm getting no feedback whatsoever. So I'm like," I'm just checking. Please shout out if I'm going too fast, too slow, any questions." And it was just awful I dunno why they turned their cameras off, to be honest, at least the one guy had it on, but yeah. It's cuz then you think, have they gone for a walk are they even there anymore? Yeah, that was very different. Whereas other ones I've done, the cameras are on and it's a lot better. You're seeing still not the same as in person, but yeah, all cameras off trying to give a pitch was just awful.

[00:25:20] Scott: I wouldn't wanna do that again. So I dunno. What advice would you have given me to, other than, Hey, can you turn your cameras on please? If we really helpful!

[00:25:26] Ryan: Yeah that's tough, cuz really it should be the organizer should have really set that. You can tell them to use their, the emojis if possible. So if you're following along, gimme a thumbs up. If I'm going too fast, gimme a thumbs up. Something like that to open the signal a little bit.

[00:25:39] Ryan: You could try to stimulate it using the chat, but I mean that, that would be beforehand. It I'm just putting myself in your shoes when you're in it.

[00:25:47] Scott: Yeah, I didn't know that was gonna happen. It was just like, oh, okay. This is cause so I was part of a bigger meeting. So clearly the whole meeting, they had the cameras off. I was just one person presenting.

[00:25:58] Ryan: I know really makes you think, right? Like these folks do this every day or they do, this is normal. They just show up and have their cameras off. But

[00:26:05] Scott: Yeah. Cause I was trying to put it into in that you wouldn't do that in the real world. Would you, or sat around a conference table and just put a bag over your head? I'd no one could see what I'm doing or see my reaction. Yeah. I thought it was quite strange, but there you go.

[00:26:18] Ryan: Yeah, I agree.

[00:26:19] Scott: So any other things that we've not covered that you think would be useful for the audience?

[00:26:24] Scott: Any. Key tips that you give to people. If this is resonating with them and they're thinking, I wanna up my game or there's some team dynamics that I think I can improve any of your kind of killer tips. You'd give? 

[00:26:34] Ryan: Killer tips. So I would say something I've been into a lot lately and I've been writing quite a bit about is the effectiveness of self-reflection. and like we, we spoke earlier about, automatically attributing fault and blame if something happens to yourself. But, and I don't recommend anyone does that definitely work with the data that you have.

[00:26:56] Ryan: And I've, as I'm saying, there's so many memories spring to mind, come back to me as executives that are like," I know this happened, I know this person's upset with me, or I know this happened and man, I'm not, this is not gonna work out". And when you actually did, "why do you think that there's no actual, tangible evidence?"

[00:27:13] Ryan: "It's just cuz they didn't get back to me or because the way that they said, thank you. They never say, thank you like that". I'm like, okay, this is,

[00:27:20] Scott: "They didn't put a smiley on their message. They always put a smiley what's wrong. What have I done?!

[00:27:24] Ryan: "I got the non smiley message, right? That means kiss of death. Now I gotta start getting my resume ready, looking for a new job."

[00:27:31] Ryan: It is always, so people tend to jump to conclusions, but when I say self-reflection. I mean after an exchange, right? Like our communication can always be better and our approach can always be better. So even if, like they say no one can ever, you can never be fit enough.

[00:27:46] Ryan: You can always get a little bit more in shape. So that's why I advocate for that. Take every opportunity you can to level up your own skills and especially communication and interpersonal skills, because those will really carry you. There's a lot of folks out there who have excellent hard skills who are incredibly brilliant in finance engineering business, you name it, but there's very few of those are also excellent at interpersonal skills and communication.

[00:28:13] Ryan: And those are the who ascend. They develop more, they make more deals, they develop more relationships, they have more partnerships and they begin to capitalize on more opportunities. The path there is really assessing yourself. So kind being, not being afraid to take a look at yourself and examine an interaction and exchange that happened with you and think " could I have chosen my words better?"

[00:28:37] Ryan: " What was my outcome here? Did I just jump into this? Felt like instinctively I should. Or did I give it some thought maybe next time? I'll think about a couple phrases. I want to make sure I deliver next time or a word I shouldn't use around this person that's sets a trigger. It sets them off."

[00:28:54] Ryan: So giving more thought will automatically. Improve your batting average, like it'll move the needle. Now the second part to that is once you give it more thought, yeah, it definitely helps to have a larger vocabulary and have a lot of approaches. I often say people who choose people who, they have communication misfires or disconnects.

[00:29:15] Ryan: It's not because they're intentionally trying to screw it up. It's. One of two things either. Most like most often they don't know a better way. That's all they know. I need this done. So I'm gonna tell you, "Scott, do this. I need you to do this today". Or "I need you to do this now". They don't know. There's another way.

[00:29:33] Ryan: That'll make you more motivated. That'll make you more productive. That'll make you like that. That's all they know, right? " Scott's employee here. He's on my team. I need this done. I will tell Scott to do this". So that's most often the culprit is people just don't have the tools at their disposal.

[00:29:49] Ryan: And then of course, once you give them to them, it's whoa, it like opens up a whole new world. They're like, "I could have been doing this way better. How many people have I upset in the meantime?" That's usually the first " oh no, that means I have pissed so many people off for the last five years". But then after they get past that, then they start to, wield it to their advantage. But yeah, that's one, that's probably the main one.

[00:30:08] Ryan: Brilliant. And of course, you've got a book out. Haven't you?

[00:30:10] Ryan: Yes. Yeah, I have it right here. So it's called the The Effective Presenter, The Winning Formula for Business Communication. And this, yeah. Thank you for asking the, my book. It just came out this past February and it was in the pipeline. It was in the works for a long time. A lot of folks. I mean of all the work I do.

[00:30:27] Ryan: And now as admittedly, I do more executive coaching now and training, but initially I started out with communication and presentations, everything from presenting a plan or a pitch, but also presenting yourself in an interview for young folks out there, people transitioning anything you really need to communicate I built a framework that makes it very easy for you to know that you have accomplished, you've checked off all the boxes. You've done everything you can and you've maximized your probability of success. So the book is designed around a framework to chocked full of stories. It's very easy to read and yeah, it's available on Amazon, anywhere books are sold. It's also on Audible. If you like hearing the sound of my voice, which few people do. No, I'm joking. But yeah, there's it's also available in Audible and anywhere audio books are sold, so yeah, definitely grab yourself a copy.

[00:31:19] Scott: Great. we'll make sure there's a link to that in the show notes.

[00:31:22] Ryan: Thanks very much.

[00:31:23] Scott: It's been great chatting to you. So if anybody wants to work with you, how do they get hold of you?

[00:31:27] Ryan: There's a couple ways. Again, thank you for asking. So you can visit professionalpresentationservices.com and you can connect with me there. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So you can just search up. Ryan J. Warner and Warner is W A R I N E R.

[00:31:42] Ryan: And you can follow me on Instagram. I have a mailing list you can subscribe to through the website any way you'd like to get in touch. If I can help you out, if my team and I can put something together for you and help you unlock your potential. As I, I like to say then definitely be happy to help.

[00:31:57] Scott: Great. And do you help clients around the world or in specific areas?

[00:32:00] Ryan: Oh, yes. All around the world. I think in 18 different countries right now, I have, I think on my current client, I'm currently working with 12 clients on a weekly or biweekly basis. And they're everywhere from Australia, which we mentioned earlier all the way to yeah. To Canada and everywhere in between all over Europe.

[00:32:18] Scott: So one of the questions I ask all my guests, if you had to take one book to a desert island, you're gonna be stranded there for the rest of your life. What would that book be? Can be your own if you want. And you're not allowed a Kindle, it's gotta be a physical book.

[00:32:31] Ryan: Be a physical book. Okay. If I can take one book there. I think it would be. Probably How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie, that book. Yeah, I think that was like the first book I ever actually read. And it just, yeah, it was really, I love the stories and the way it was written and everything, it was really well done.

[00:32:52] Ryan: It stands the test of time.

[00:32:53] Scott: Ryan, it's been great chatting to you. Thank you so much for being on the show.

[00:32:56] Ryan: Oh, it's my pleasure, Scott. Thanks for having me.

[00:32:58] Scott: A big thank you for listening to the Rebel Diaries show, your time is precious. So thank you. It is appreciated. 

[00:33:05] Scott: The show has a new Facebook group for you to engage with others, discuss topics, and let me know what you think of the show. 

[00:33:11] Scott: There's a link to the group in the show notes or search Facebook for Rebel Diaries community.

[00:33:15] Scott: It'd be great to see you there .

[00:33:17] Scott: Until next week take care, be a rebel and deliver work with impact.